BOOTSTRAPPING ★ 32 upvotes 2008

Bootstrapped startup problem: credit card company abuse

The Founder's Submission

Direct narrative and submission text authored by @DocSavage on Hacker News:

If you're bootstrapping your startup, you may turn to credit cards at some point. We just cancelled an Advanta business card because of their predatory practices, and we'll have to eat some excessive charges that could've been much worse if we didn't have cash available. If you have advice on where we can file a complaint (aside from FDIC), let me know.

Advanta (http://advanta.com) advertises a business card with "0% Fixed APR on balance transfers for 15 months with a 7.99% fixed APR therafter." I thought I saw this card positively reviewed in one of the entrepreneurial magazines. We signed up and for about 9 months, we made some charges and paid the balance in full each month. Then we decided to take out $25k in cash advance from the account with a reasonable transaction fee capped at $50. A few months after taking that cash advance, we were notified, in the words of a customer service rep, of "a slight change to our lending guidelines since your account was established." That slight change was an increase from 7.99% to 18.99%.

The notification letter was dated Feb 29, 2008 (date of letter, not receipt) and the new rate was effective March 20, 2008. The March 20 change was conveniently 5 days before the end of the billing cycle so that Advanta could take advantage of their billing clause that "any change in APR becomes effective as of the first day in the billing cycle.." So both the notification and rate increase happened within a single billing cycle.

Note that this increase in interest was NOT tied to any late payment. In an e-mail, a customer service rep wrote that the change occured because "Advanta reviews lending guidelines on a regular basis to ensure that they are in line with industry standards and the changing economy." Except they are still advertising the 7.99% rate on their website and mailings. Who do they think they're kidding?

After receiving the letter and corresponding with Advanta, I paid the $27k balance in full two days before the March 20 rate change and even had a negative $200 due because of a LogoWorks rebate. But because I did not send a signed written notice that I rejected the modified account terms, Advanta billed me 18.99% finance charges for the previous month on the cash balance.

We can only imagine how many people they rip off this way. It seems clear to us, they've automated this way of doing business to fleece people who don't rapidly and precisely respond to their unethical business practices.

Other ways they gain profits: "Cash Back Rewards" that aren't credited to your account but sent as cutout checks in sheets of paper behind regular account statements. They realize people, particular ones with online accounts and software, may not open or even notice the checks. So these "void within 90 days" checks will go unused. The envelopes containing these checks won't have any unusual markings and just say "Statement Enclosed." But envelopes that have cash advance checks and other ways to get you in debt have "Inside: Important Information About Your Account" on the envelope. Do you see a pattern here?

In looking at some card review sites, it appears we aren't the only ones getting the jump in interest for no reason. We contacted the FDIC and spoke with the Advanta specialist. It seems as long as they are following the business agreement they wrote (to fleece consumers, I believe), then the FDIC can't do anything.

Retrospective Overview & Key Insights

Distilled analysis of the business dynamics, operational challenges, and strategic takeaways:

Published in 2008, this chronicle by @DocSavage details the mechanics of building a profitable, self-funded business without venture backing.

Core Principles for Independent Builders:
1
Charging customers from day one acts as the ultimate filter for building software that solves genuine, high-urgency problems.
2
Keeping fixed overhead low and leveraging lean infrastructure allows founders to stay alive until market tailwinds kick in.
3
Small, repetitive improvements in customer retention and conversion rates yield massive returns over multi-year horizons.
Community Debate Themes:

The community focused on B2B customer acquisition channels, cold email vs SEO distribution, and balancing full-time employment with side-project development.

Community Discussions & Critical Reviews

High-signal perspectives, counter-arguments, and peer founder insights debated on Hacker News (25 total discussions):

JY @jyoon Peer Contributor

I found a good website www.BCSAlliance.com. According to this site, jacking up the rate using a bait-and-switch tactic is common in the credit card industry. The only way to refuse the new rate is via a written letter mailed using certified mail. If you were to call and notify the bank that you refused the new rate, the bank will conveniently forget about the oral refusal. This is also said to be a common/usual practice for all kinds of disputes with a credit card company. The following is a sample letter to dispute a change in interest rate from this website:

"Dear Sir or Madam: I recently received notification from you that you are [state change: e.g., changing the way in which you calculate the interest rate on my credit card.] This letter serves as my written notice of my non-acceptance to this change in terms to my credit card agreement. I understand that I have the right to continue to use my credit card under the existing terms until the expiration date on my credit card at which time my account will be closed. I also understand that I may pay off any remaining balance under my current terms."

LN @lnguyen Peer Contributor

Nothing a credit card company does is ever in your favor unless it's required by legislation.

While they make money on a per transaction basis, the bulk of their profits come from fees and interest. Especially fees since that's essentially "free money" for them. So they really don't like anyone who pays off bills in full each month (transactors aka "deadbeats").

Also, take a close look at your credit offers and statements. Cash advances are almost always at a higher interest rate and don't have a grace period like purchases. Odds are you still would have been accessed the finance charges even under the original lending agreement.

TE @ten-seven Peer Contributor

I recently got a "splatter-gram" email from a friend of my father, also slamming Advanta. Sorry, but I'm smelling a pattern here, and it makes me skeptical that something is going on targeting Advanta. It's likely what they're doing is legal and quite common, even it doesn't make people happy.

Further, using any type of "rewards" card hammers the retailers. The "reward" comes out of the transaction, as do transaction fees. The end result is higher prices to cover the rewards. Your reward isn't the result of generosity, it comes out of your own wallet ultimately.

PA @parker Peer Contributor

Seriously guys, I know becoming a successful entrepreneur requires taking some risks, but for Pete's sake, stay away from funding your aspirations with credit card debt. If it hits the fan, your credit rating could become ruined forever. Not to mention you could easily crater into bankruptcy, which is a predicament that not only has financial and legal implications, but social and emotional ones as well.

Fund your start up with equity, not debt. Either your own, or somebody else's.

Too many lives are ruined with credit card burdens...

TC @tc Peer Contributor

From what you've described, this ordeal cost you about $248.64 [1]. In terms of the problems that people funding young companies with credit cards often get themselves into, you escaped relatively unscathed.

Rather than looking for avenues of complaint, you may be best served to spend that energy on your startup. As far as business lessons at the school of hard knocks go, $250 is getting off cheap.

[1] (* 27000 (1- (exp (/ (- 1899/10000 799/10000) 12))))

HISTORICAL ERA Web 2.0 Genesis (2007–2013)
COMMUNITY SCORE ★ 32 points
TOTAL DISCUSSIONS 25 comments
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